if a man was able capture four belts in four different divisions in MMA like pacquio with the seven in seven separate like lets say 135-145-155-165/170 would you consider that person the best ever
Aldo could very well take on the guys at 135, but I'm not too sure about 155. Maybe the LW's in the WEC, but he definitely has to prove his ground game is top notch before he takes on bigger guys, since the UFC LW division has a lot of wrestlers that are up there in the ranks. So far, he's been able to dominate guys on the ground because he beat them up so bad, standing up, all they can think about is trying to survive the beat down. Just look at his fights with Brown and Faber, who were considered to be pretty strong wrestlers. I don't know what was going through Aldo's head at the time, when he clearly could have finished Faber at any time, but decided to play it safe both standing up and on the ground. I don't think he'll be able to get away with that against bigger guys, but like I mentioned in a previous post that there's so much unknown talent in the lighter divisions, that you never know. There's still plenty of great fighters to defend his title against, so I think it's a little early to say he should move to other divisions.
Submitted by oxfordblakk on Sat, 2010-04-24 11:43.
I think you would have to consider him the greatest at this specific time because what happens if he is defeated or someone else manages to accomplish the exact same thing or supersede him? Then that guy becomes the greatest ever, but wait that means that the last guy really never was the greatest ever because his ever came to an end. You see what I mean? The argument is getting superfluous though. Basically if a fighter does exactly the things you specify than it is safe to say that the dude is just plain out great, period.
ok let make the question simpler if a guy beats every one and cleans out 4 divisions and owns the belt in all 4 135, 145, 155, 170 and it's the ar in MMA the only real era of actual mixed martial artist and seriously elite athletes would you consider him the best pound for pound ever I don't care about athlete I'm asking about fighter but I like Garth's answer but one thing I know is that skill and athleticism makes up for size
Submitted by oxfordblakk on Fri, 2010-04-23 14:02.
Garth hit the nail on the head, only I think everyone is willing to acknowledge the fact that the clause "ever" almost makes the argument ad absurdum. I mean, just think of the "greatest ever" in all of professional sports. Wayne Gretzky, Michael Jordan, Sweetness? These guys were great, but are they the "greatest ever." Ever indicates greatest in perpetuity but every great athletes career comes to a close. Its frankly impossible to level that kind of designation without there being implicit qualifications like "what era did the athlete compete in" or "who was the athlete's competition" or "what were the regulatory standards of the sport" so forth and so on.
The focus of my other post was towards armen's post referring to when MMA pretty much had no rules and no weight restrictions. Sorry I didn't catch your question. Well to get back on topic, I would consider the best fighter to be able to hold as many as four titles...if he was actively defending them all successfully against other top fighters, sure. I wouldn't even count just winning the belt and moving on to another title, which I believe is what Pacqiao did.
Even in the WEC, where the gaps between weight classes is a little smaller, there's just so much unknown talent in those divisions that you never know who will come out on top next. I don't see someone like GSP cleaning divisions all the way down to 135 and I certainly don't see someone like Dominic Cruz doing well at 170; if that were to actually happen, he must not be fighting top competition at the time.
Winning one belt and keeping it is difficult enough, but FOUR? That's just not going to happen. It'd be quite a feat though.
If the UFC were to hold an Open Weight division, in this day in age, only the Light Heavyweights and Heavyweights would most likely succeed. Anybody else smaller than 205lbs would be giving up a lot of strength and size. That's why the fight community has come up with a Pound-for-Pound ranking, knowing some fighters just couldn't possibly fight guys 2-3 divisions above their own. But even P4P rankings vary, depending on your definition of what the best fighter would be; Would it be his ability to finish opponents? How well he controls the fight? Has he ever been knocked out or submitted? Is he able to fight well in multiple weight classes? There's just way too many factors to consider the best fighter in the world and every fighter in those rankings have at least some kind of discrepancy that would disqualify them from being number one.
Currently, Anderson Silva probably has the best credentials for being the best; but I'd like to see him fight more capable wrestlers. His only real threat so far was Dan Henderson. Even though Dan got choked out, he definitely gave Anderson a fight. There's plenty of LHW's, other than Lyoto, that can test him; it's just a matter of whether the UFC wants it or not. I have a feeling this upcoming fight with Demian Maia isn't going to be that much different from the Thales Leites fight; or it may just be a really quick KO. Either way, I have very low expectations of the fight.
If you're trying to compare the greatest fighters ever, they must be fighting under the same rules (MMA vs boxing), else the best you can say is "best boxer" or "best MMA" athlete.
It was in the old days when fighters fought under no rules, no time limits, no weigh divisions. In my opinion, It was only under those circumstances that one can achieve "Best Fighter" recognition.
yeah but what if a guy say 135 won the belt in the WEC for 135 and 145 and then moved to the UFC to capture the 155 and 165/170 title what if a human was able to do these things Anderson silva could have 2 belts but what if this guy could have 4 and GSP might be moving up
yeah it was henry arm strong but he was in boxing this would be in MMA where the weight difference has a greater significance but this man would retire with all his belts
Re: the pound for pound greatest fighter ever
Aldo could very well take on the guys at 135, but I'm not too sure about 155. Maybe the LW's in the WEC, but he definitely has to prove his ground game is top notch before he takes on bigger guys, since the UFC LW division has a lot of wrestlers that are up there in the ranks. So far, he's been able to dominate guys on the ground because he beat them up so bad, standing up, all they can think about is trying to survive the beat down. Just look at his fights with Brown and Faber, who were considered to be pretty strong wrestlers. I don't know what was going through Aldo's head at the time, when he clearly could have finished Faber at any time, but decided to play it safe both standing up and on the ground. I don't think he'll be able to get away with that against bigger guys, but like I mentioned in a previous post that there's so much unknown talent in the lighter divisions, that you never know. There's still plenty of great fighters to defend his title against, so I think it's a little early to say he should move to other divisions.
Re: the pound for pound greatest fighter ever
i read Dana White is trying to set up Aldo to try and get the 135 and 155 title to add to the one he already has.
Re: the pound for pound greatest fighter ever
I think you would have to consider him the greatest at this specific time because what happens if he is defeated or someone else manages to accomplish the exact same thing or supersede him? Then that guy becomes the greatest ever, but wait that means that the last guy really never was the greatest ever because his ever came to an end. You see what I mean? The argument is getting superfluous though. Basically if a fighter does exactly the things you specify than it is safe to say that the dude is just plain out great, period.
Re: the pound for pound greatest fighter ever
ok let make the question simpler if a guy beats every one and cleans out 4 divisions and owns the belt in all 4 135, 145, 155, 170 and it's the ar in MMA the only real era of actual mixed martial artist and seriously elite athletes would you consider him the best pound for pound ever I don't care about athlete I'm asking about fighter but I like Garth's answer but one thing I know is that skill and athleticism makes up for size
Re: the pound for pound greatest fighter ever
Garth hit the nail on the head, only I think everyone is willing to acknowledge the fact that the clause "ever" almost makes the argument ad absurdum. I mean, just think of the "greatest ever" in all of professional sports. Wayne Gretzky, Michael Jordan, Sweetness? These guys were great, but are they the "greatest ever." Ever indicates greatest in perpetuity but every great athletes career comes to a close. Its frankly impossible to level that kind of designation without there being implicit qualifications like "what era did the athlete compete in" or "who was the athlete's competition" or "what were the regulatory standards of the sport" so forth and so on.
Re: the pound for pound greatest fighter ever
The focus of my other post was towards armen's post referring to when MMA pretty much had no rules and no weight restrictions. Sorry I didn't catch your question. Well to get back on topic, I would consider the best fighter to be able to hold as many as four titles...if he was actively defending them all successfully against other top fighters, sure. I wouldn't even count just winning the belt and moving on to another title, which I believe is what Pacqiao did.
Even in the WEC, where the gaps between weight classes is a little smaller, there's just so much unknown talent in those divisions that you never know who will come out on top next. I don't see someone like GSP cleaning divisions all the way down to 135 and I certainly don't see someone like Dominic Cruz doing well at 170; if that were to actually happen, he must not be fighting top competition at the time.
Winning one belt and keeping it is difficult enough, but FOUR? That's just not going to happen. It'd be quite a feat though.
Re: the pound for pound greatest fighter ever
dude not to be rude but you totally missed the question the question is if a guy owned 4 belts would you consider him the best fighter ever
Re: the pound for pound greatest fighter ever
If the UFC were to hold an Open Weight division, in this day in age, only the Light Heavyweights and Heavyweights would most likely succeed. Anybody else smaller than 205lbs would be giving up a lot of strength and size. That's why the fight community has come up with a Pound-for-Pound ranking, knowing some fighters just couldn't possibly fight guys 2-3 divisions above their own. But even P4P rankings vary, depending on your definition of what the best fighter would be; Would it be his ability to finish opponents? How well he controls the fight? Has he ever been knocked out or submitted? Is he able to fight well in multiple weight classes? There's just way too many factors to consider the best fighter in the world and every fighter in those rankings have at least some kind of discrepancy that would disqualify them from being number one.
Currently, Anderson Silva probably has the best credentials for being the best; but I'd like to see him fight more capable wrestlers. His only real threat so far was Dan Henderson. Even though Dan got choked out, he definitely gave Anderson a fight. There's plenty of LHW's, other than Lyoto, that can test him; it's just a matter of whether the UFC wants it or not. I have a feeling this upcoming fight with Demian Maia isn't going to be that much different from the Thales Leites fight; or it may just be a really quick KO. Either way, I have very low expectations of the fight.
Re: the pound for pound greatest fighter ever
If you're trying to compare the greatest fighters ever, they must be fighting under the same rules (MMA vs boxing), else the best you can say is "best boxer" or "best MMA" athlete.
It was in the old days when fighters fought under no rules, no time limits, no weigh divisions. In my opinion, It was only under those circumstances that one can achieve "Best Fighter" recognition.
Re: the pound for pound greatest fighter ever
yeah but what if a guy say 135 won the belt in the WEC for 135 and 145 and then moved to the UFC to capture the 155 and 165/170 title what if a human was able to do these things Anderson silva could have 2 belts but what if this guy could have 4 and GSP might be moving up
Re: the pound for pound greatest fighter ever
yeah it was henry arm strong but he was in boxing this would be in MMA where the weight difference has a greater significance but this man would retire with all his belts