olympic lifting

Everyone in ChuteBoxe lifts weights. Plus, you just claimed to have 17 inch arms and squat over 2xbw neither  of which are true, how do I know you ever trained at ChuteBoxe?
Squatting does not cause knee problems. If you got knee problems, you did so because of poor form. They have done plenty of studies showing that squats do not cause knee problems.
Lifting weights will not cause you to gain bulk. This is a fallacy that makes no sense. Diet is where bulk comes from. If you aren't on a caloric surplus, you won't gain muchbulk no matter how you lift. Eat like crazy and do a lot of BW exercises, and you will gain more mass.
Gymnasts have nowhere near the strength levels of peple who train in olympic lifting, strongman or powerlifting.
Bruce Lee used to lift weights. A lot.
 
Your analysis of weight lifitng is based on numerous urban legends. That lifting makes you gain bulk, that it slows you down, that squats cause knee problems. You probably believe lifting weight makes you inflexible.
 
Also, look up Rafael Alejarra yourself. Type his name into youtube and watch him train Xande Riberio, Mike Whitehead and Wand Silva. He uses weight training for all three.

I learned at the Chute Boxe academy in Brazil under rafael alejarra look him up if you want my expirence is just the same as yours if not more i went through months and years of exauhstive expirimentation from the time i was ten i wanted to be bjj world champion and have been training seriouly ever since I have been an athlete since I was 3 playing soccer and doing boxing and karate trust me my age has nothing to do with my knowldge expirence or thought of methods I used olympic lifts for about 2 years grew in mas size and strength but nothig drastic and nothing that hightened my athletic ability as SSL in fact olympic lifting and squats caused me to have knee problems which i never had prior to it which relly turned me off to it despite growth and strength and progression the bulkyness the mass is not what i wanted I do not want to scarfice raw speed for power nor vise versa i write off the method but not completely but i know this as a gymnist I am 100x stronger now then when i used olympiclifts simply by lifting my own body weight every day olympic lifts are great for some but there is no stronger more condtioned or functional athlete than a gymnist weights have limits and set limiters on your body and can not help me defy the laws on nature and my body that i wish to accomplish i want to be the best pound for pound fighter in the world and the most dominate light weight ever SSL can help me achieve that not olympic liftsolympic lifts have there limits there degrees and there heights SSL methods don't and constatly shock the body a new way grow and evolve the same can not be said for weight lifting a grand method of training don't get me wrong it has it's place in the athletic field and will always but is nothing compared the sports lab and the potential that it's methods hold Bruce Lee was the first but certainly not the last his kind i truely believe that with the sport's labs methods  

I graduated early I've been taining for mrtial arts since I was 4 or 5 I tried lifting weights and olympic lifts and body builder work outs none of it was for me it didn'y enhance any thing really other conventional and non functional strength that didn't always translate to the mat I have always been training and doing puch up since i was 12 or 10   

I can only tell you personal expirence  I've used both

............what?
 
I didn't criticize the method.
 
I explained to you why you are wrong about Olympic lifting.

the lineman from alabama maybe his last name was smith?

how is being a big dude a talent? the lineman from alabama benched 225 like 18 times which isn't to impressive for a "BIG DUDE". He got drafted in the first round because of his skill and athleticism. An elite athlete is an elite athlete no matter what type of training he does how does weight training or olympic lifts make someone an athlete?

Nigel,
 
I agree completely. In my opinion, no one method is appropriate for everybody or every situation. Honestly that's what fueled my earlier questions regarding SSL's transfer to adventure sports. In many cases, the thing you're not currently doing could be of the most benefit to you. All paths lead to Rome. Personally, I try everything I can, keep what works and throw away what doesn't. Over the years I have learned much from Vern, Mark V., Jon Hinds, Gavin, Steve Ilg... the list goes on. An open mind and a willingness to accept that you don't know what you don't know is key. Rejecting something you haven't tried only limits your opportunities to grow and learn.
 
 
CJM,
 
I'd like to throw your own quote back at you. This has been precisely my point. You have made these same assumptions about SSL. :)
 
"I have no idea, or why people think that because one style of training works another must not."

" You can't reply a non-expert guy's post to say the things said here are wrong."
Why? As a non-expert this kid mpcc shouldn't be putting his opinion out there if he does not want it questioned. I am not attacking him, I am just pointing out to him that he is incorrect in his assumptions about weightligting. He could easily be spreading this to his school mates and others. "Come on, man. If you don't accept the SSL method, what the SSL philosophy says and those who believe in this method, you have nothing to do here. You waste your time."
I haven't said anything about the SSL method. This thread is about weightlifting and a certain members incorrect views on it, that is all. My support of weight training is not an attack on SSL.
"Me I don't go on conventional weightlifting forums to try to convince people that what they say are wrong. I'm disagree with their way of training, and that's all."
If you believe in SSl, you should be getting it out there and helping other people wiht their training and helping the company that you believe in.
 
"Why is it all or nothing with everyone, I don't understand the point of being closeminded."
I have no idea, or why people think that because one style of training works another must not.
 
And yeah, there is absolutely no way Josua is squatting over 2xbw at 16. I would honestly bet my life on it.

I've enjoyed this but there's really no point in continuing any further. I really wish you the best of luck and hope you try SSL training for yourself someday. You don't have to visit in person either. The DVDs and a minimal amount of equipment are all you need to get started. I think you would find the results eye-opening. 

You misunderstand me. The study you cite is incredibly vague and biased in favor of achieving a desired result (as most are). It is from a site which seeks to promote Oly lifting and thus is not objective. No proof is offered, just broad conclusions based on generalities and inappropriate comparisons. You accept this as iron-clad but dismiss the arguments made on this site (there are studies behind these as well). I believe you do so because it supports your current views not because it is scientific or irrefutable. I don't believe anything I say is going to change that. That was my point.

If you accept this as "iron-clad" then I don't think I'm going to convince you otherwise. 

Please keep in mind, I'm not against Oly lifting in general but it's not the end all be all for performance training.

"well to strip every thing away weight lifting can build explosive aspects your sqaut and clean ussually corrolates with your vertical jump but do not corrolate with a 40 a Shuttle or improve balance or prevent damage to ligaments and bones sure olympic lifting can increase a vertical and explosive aspect of sports but it does not improve all around athletics the reason SSL commments on it being bad because of the injury factor"
 
Thread bump so I can show you this sir.
http://www.owresource.com/lifts/benefits.php
Just so you know what you were saying about O-lifting isn't true.

I am late in responding to this thread, but I thought I'd add my two cents worth since I used to train and compete in olympic lifting.  Overall, in the time that I trained "heavy" with olypic lifting, my vertical jump increased by a whopping three inches in about a year's time.  Then, just as Gavin suggests in his response above, when my weights began getting heavy (heavy for me, lol), my vertical stagnated and I saw little if any gains on it.  We tested our verticals ever so often, as well as standing broad, which topped out at 10'2" for me.
 
With that being said, I've always been able to run fast and jump high, even as a kid with no training.  I have lifted heavy since high school back in the late 1980's, early 1990, and I don't ever recall any significant gains in speed or jumping ability even as my lifting numbers went up.  We did all the "traditional" lifts that are so common and very little "movement" type of exercises.  My coaches always claimed that to run fast and jump high, you've got to "squat and clean big weight" to make it happen.  I always wondered why my times stayed pretty constant even as my squat went over the 400 lbs. mark.
 
So, what Gavin said above is basically what my own experience has been.  Right on point.

all hail Gavin and his awsome method the spots lab

oh I guess I misinuturpreted what I read then but I used OLympic methods when I was freshman and I can tell you from expierence with both methods and what I have read fro SSL that that's what I had gathered I'm still learning though guess I just have study more thanks for the advise and clarity though

well to strip every thing away weight lifting can build explosive aspects your sqaut and clean ussually corrolates with your vertical jump but do not corrolate with a 40 a Shuttle or improve balance or prevent damage to ligaments and bones sure olympic lifting can increase a vertical and explosive aspect of sports but it does not improve all around athletics the reason SSL commments on it being bad because of the injury factor

but also why do interegrated work when SSL methods work on all components at the same time

Olympic lifting certainly increases one's core strength, helps improve speed and explosiveness. No one here is talking about Cleaning 400 lbs, but maybe 50 lb kettlebells. Looking at all the professional athletes out there, most of them have gotten to where they are by incorporating strength training to some degree. Most likely this is part of a integrated program including stretching, plyometrics, flexibility, etc. Take Dwight Howard for instance. As the first pick in the NBA Draft coming out of high school he was a twig. Now after several years in the weight room he is one of the most dominating players in the NBA.

I'll ask again, why not incorporate both styles of training into a yearly plan of some sort? Both can be very beneficial for athletes who are at different stages in the development.

true but the ssl movements you speak of focus on balance and core strength essential to any sport and no program other than SSL builds either better olympic lifting only developes strength and powerful muscle groups what good is strength with out cordination balance speed and athletic explosion how can you justify olympic lifting as something that improve athletisim when it simply builds strength athletes have no need for lifting heavy weights because the sports don't requir it look at Bruce Lee he was a heavy weight lifter until he rellieved that lifting his own body weight actually built great and more functional and useful strength to his arts what good is strength with out flexibility speed agility and balance Olympic lifting can't help build that sow hat is your argument that olympic lifting creats better athletes than SSL this si how I see if you want to be a good athlete as an olympic lifter you must first already be a great athlete when you start but with SSL you have girls that can not be no great athelets but after siw week can put up to 16 inchecs on there vertical it's about being an over all better athlete olympic lift it a strength and power lifting program which really has no corrolation to athletisim

I'm guessing your tractor analogy is referencing Olympic Powerlifters. I'm referencing athletes performing olympic lifts (football, baseball, etc) so a better analogy might be a thoroughbred horse.

To your second question, Olympic lifting doesn't directly simulate any sport specifc movements (at least that I'm aware of) but does strengthen and recruit many muscle groups helping to improve performance. Likewise, i can think of several SSL movements that are not sport specific, but probably also help improve performance.

the point of ssl is to improve over all athletism just because and olympic lifter has a greta verticle does not mean they are great athletes I have read your post and can give you a cleaer answer SSl methods prevent injury while olympic type lifts can help cause them can an olympic lifters training improve speed reaction agility overall mobility range of motion felxibilty no it's proven that tehse methods limit these things DB's are ok but you line me and you up on a field any day I'll always be the better athlete and that is the method and what SSL preaches should a basketball player be doing olympic lifting should a boxer or a track runner no they shouldn't there sport's don't need it and it only hurts them but SSL helps them this a is a method that can help all sports from golf to lacross olympic lifting can't do that there for it is the inferior method but you do what ever works for you I wish you the best